Cancer
The first time I met Josef was when my friends Teresa and Esme and I had to collect chalet keys from his home. Looking back I suppose he was a bit odd, but I just put it down to the language barrier. I only know how to say a few things in Austrian, which I learnt during my first visit there.
He looked well-kempt. His hair wasn't all like a grey cloud like it is now. However, his trousers had no belt, but instead a length of cord. I can't help wondering about what he used the rope for now.
The chalets were adequate for our needs, however, they often smelled musty. The only personal touches that Josef has added were some old photographs from the war.
Once Josef made me walk to a convenience shop with him to buy matches for the pilot light on the chalet boiler. The shopkeeper did not have any matches, and Josef lost his temper and kicked over a display of some local produce. Then he grabbed a chocolate bar and did not pay for it. The shopkeeper looked scared of him.
Even when he kicked over the display, Josef never intimidated me. I thought it was just a machismo thing because he was in the company of an attractive young woman. I did not see any maliciousness. He seemed kind. Once a wasp was trapped in the cloakroom of our chalet, and I was ready to zap it with some Bug-B-Gone, but Josef cupped it in his hands and set it free out of the window telling it to "fly away!"
I had not known he was convicted of rape previously. I always felt safe in his presence, but Teresa said that he pressed his erect, clothed penis against her buttocks in the chalet.
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Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Melkor, May 9, 2008 at 09:48Is the issue here a pretty, self-involved girl (wow, a real rarity – I have at least a half dozen of these in my own family – I don’t think they are as capable of harm as some may think) or an insight into the second worst S.O.B. to come out of Austria (YIKES! - only second, I hope there isn’t something in the water) in the last 100 years? It is curious to me, considering what this jackass did, that what gets seized on are a couple honest benign statements from someone who has a high opinion of themselves (and what the hell is wrong with that anyway) and only wants to contribute and share her experiences with us. Is there a difference between calling someone ‘fat’ or calling them ‘stupid’ (and if they ARE fat or stupid, then what is the issue exactly)? Sure, maybe a little mean-spirited, but perhaps merely a product of age – most of us grow out of that sort of thing naturally. All of this language is meant to marginalize people who don’t look or act in a manner which meets ones comfort level. Anyway, I hope you all found that cathartic.
As for Fritzl, he’s gotta go. To my mind there is a line and once crossed there is no return. Frankly, as a society, we should provide him the means to do it himself (in an effort for him to regain a modicum of respect) and if he refuses we should do it for him. The only regret I would have is that we don’t have the ability to raise this fracker (for my Battlestar Galactica homies) from the dead and kill him twice.
Stories like this really make me question whether or not this world is worth preserving. I was truly hoping to read this article and get a sense of outrage by reading the comments – yet this did not happen. If it had, I may have been placated. Instead, we worry about the perceived shortcomings of someone who (as far as I know) has broken no laws, has destroyed no one’s life, has not outraged any right thinking individual, has contributed positively to society and has harmed no one. I think I may as well go out and by some aerosol deodorant. Happy earth day.
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Bud Oracle (not verified), May 9, 2008 at 19:14This fritzl guy is gone, isn't news to me any more, I don't go to hangings for my entertainment.
What is really important to me is that this naive,.teenager forms her opinions and the fact that other silly stupid kids are out there that would think a guy who goes into a store and has a violent outburst is OK because this silly goose thinks it due to her being beautiful and him showing macho stuff.
Tell me what is so interesting about this Fritzl guy except you want to have your vengeance. What is really interesting is how much of a victim this naive girl and how others can get to this age and have such nonsense in their heads. no wonder we have so many victims. these children aren't taught to think clearly--- How can someone say that they have come through a higher education system and judge someone who could have raped her, so casually, so inaccurately. I'm interested in having FEWER VICTIM. Fritzle and his fate are sealed, over, gone. The next one is what we must foil. what befalls Fritzl is of no concern to me.
No wonder we elect fools who only concentrate on closing doors after the horses have left, everyone is focussed on vengeance, not prevention, not understanding the cause to these traumas. If some one had taught sef preservation and defense to Fritzl's daughter she might have stepped up and gutted the pig before bearing him 7 children. One of my twins was only 6 or 7 when the neighbor tried groping her. She told me right away and I went to the cops.
What do they teach our children about staying alive and thinking for themselves? .They make slaves out of the next generation people who are motivated by stupid passions hate vengeance and who cant think. Focus on Fritzle all you want, talk about how you'd like to torture him . I've had my say
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Mike Small, May 9, 2008 at 10:01Couldn't agree more.
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Heather Wallace, May 9, 2008 at 10:21I also think the main issue here is Josef Fritzl - I'm sure Bernice's friend may have something to say about the comment, so maybe she'll read this and leave her own comment. But the big picture is the crime and this woman's rare glimpse...
Heather
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Michelle Kenneth, May 8, 2008 at 08:26Hi Bernice,
I think you should change your article a little bit before you start being chastised and attacked left and right for talking about your friend like that. Do you honestly believe that no man would be interested in your friend because she is overweight? That you are more likely to gain attention because you're thinner and more beautiful? If she receives attention and you don't, she must be fibbing when she does receive some form of attention? I'm sorry, but if you had told me that about your friend to my face, I would have slapped you and given you an earful. That was very shallow and self-absorbed of you to make that assessment of your friend.
Women are more likely to be overly critical of other women. Men don't look at women quite the same way that women look at each other. She must make you feel better about yourself because you're secretly thinking that you are better than her. You don't even take notice that this attitude of yours does indeed hurt your friend. I think she needs to be asking herself if YOU are truly a friend to her. By the way you constantly criticize her in your article, I don't think you're a friend at all.
Consider revising your story.
MK
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Bud Oracle (not verified), May 8, 2008 at 09:00Michelle,
I think Bernice should let every word stand. Her words were from her heart. I'm for honest spontaneity more than Political correctness. I really appreciated her telling it the way she did, because it made it real and visceral for me. Honest and genuine.
Revisionism sucks in my opinion.
Her words are expressions of common impressions. To deny them their proper light of day would forever give these sentiments power to work clandestinely in our minds. We would feel safe harboring these sentiments as long as we are politically correct, like we do now. Humans need to develop more honesty than political correctness, in my opinion. I've coined the phrase "The Fraudulent Apes" as a description of our species of primates a long time ago. When you turn that phrase over in your mind you'll see its a very accurate fit, like the another phrase I coined to describe a group of dogs, "A waggle of Dogs."
These are normal human sentiments, which, upon expression, loose their impact. Then we can grow as individuals and as a society. Honesty is the best policy. Own what you've said, and if it doesn't feel good in retrospect, do something to change its root cause within you. Don't wait for the government to make laws.
Its part of the normal maturing process which leads to better human beings.
Revisionism only leads to political correctness.
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Michelle Kenneth, May 8, 2008 at 10:30I'm not thinking about "political correctness." This story is really supposed to be about Fritzl, not about her thoughts on her friend. I found what she had to say about her friend to be highly insensitive. My thoughts on revising the article was that she take out her personal thoughts on her friend.
You have to step out of your own shoes and put yourself into her friend's shoes. How would you feel if you found out that your friend had posted up a story on an international news site about what she really thought about you (and it wasn't really nice)? It's one thing if she posted it up on her own Myspace or Facebook, but on an international news site???
It was just highly insensitive for her to speak like that. I'm more concerned about who she was hurting in that article. People have committed suicide over things like this. That's why it should be revised.
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Bud Oracle (not verified), May 8, 2008 at 16:39You are right to think about that in a way, but if I were her "friend" and saw those words I would consider them a gift and wonder what shortcomings were inside of me that I wouldn't notice this.
I consider it not so important that her friend be shielded from such a person, as this person reveals themselves and their true thoughts.
More than driving my opinion of her friend lower by her description of her, I find that Bernice snares herself, revealing her own shallowness, vanity and naivety.
I see that those who insult someone else for the way they look, as being very plain inside..
This is where I see the true beauty of a person, inside.
I am very plain and I hear those words come from other's mouths occasionally (just yesterday in fact- from someone who felt that she had to clarify that she was complimenting my dog not me-she was quite plain herself, so I guess she would know- ifelt sorry for her). They always come from people who are not happy with themselves, don't smile often and seem to be alone. The kind of people whom I don't need in my life.
And fat/ugly people aren't hurt as much by being called names than having a two faced friend.
My best friend, when i asked her what I looked like in my Oracle hat, said, "You look like a f*cking idiot." A good friend will always be honest. I thanked her for that honesty many times, since. She told me the full range of what people were going to think.
Bernice has snared herself with her words and now if she's aware, she will have to look at that part of herself which makes her like this. To grow and have real friendships is an important part of life, not superficial encounters. Her own shallowness will teach her things according to her needs. She might have been close to receiving.a fatal lesson from Fritzl himself, because of her naivety.
It's her own attitude that I wish her to revise, before her words. I challenge her to change herslef and leave the words up as a marker.
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Michelle Kenneth, May 9, 2008 at 05:57I totally agree. But keep in mind that in our youth, we are not yet capable of understanding our faults in the present moment. It's years later when we look back that we discover our wrongs against others. This is going to be a very hard lesson for her to learn. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way, instead of heeding others advice before they truly harm someone else.
We have no idea what the state of her friend's mind or self-esteem is. If she's depressed and sees something like this, she could become suicidal. I know I wouldn't want to have on my shoulders for the rest of my life that I was the cause of a friend's suicide. Makes you truly realize how crappy of a person you are. But I don't recommend learning a lesson from that angle.
I'm more or less telling her to save herself before she destroys herself. She should read Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth."
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Bud Oracle (not verified), May 9, 2008 at 07:30Michelle, I honestly don't wish to "win" this conversation, but I feel we are discussing something very valuable here, and the exchange we are having is shedding light on some greater truths than the revision of Bernice's words. Therefore, I wish to state this:
Michelle, I am a compassionate person. Your heart is in the right place for a normal person. What we must all remember is that we can’t let our hearts rule our actions.
I’m sure that the people who implemented Prohibition had their hearts in the right place but millions have suffered since, because these people wanted to do good.
First off, it is not up to someone else to mitigate the pain of another. Life is dangerous, we must all learn from young on, everyday, never delaying the lessons which present themselves to be learned. The lesson both girls must learn now were caused because someone sheltered them from learning it earlier.
Bernice is in just as much danger of her selfish naïve attitude as her friend is of the insults. Third person interference here is not necessary. Let her own self be visible in the words she wrote so that change can follow. I’m tired do gooders constantly controlling everyone else, clamoring for laws that claim to save us from the dangers of living when all they do is oppress others because they can’t mind their own business.
Life was dangerous for humans in the jungle, and it still should be dangerous for us today, otherwise our youth go out looking for danger to face, creating it just to experience the challenge.
For her friend to commit suicide due to these words she would need to be really unstable. From the words written here there is no hint of that. So it is your judgment that you are painting on her because of your sweet heart.
As I told Bernice, you are painting your emotions and judgment on to the situation where it is not warranted. It has only the weight of your emotions as its own authority. Let life work its magic on those who are living it and mind your own business unless someone asks you to intervene on their behalf. I believe the world would be a much better place if things were so.
I keep hearing about the inquest in Victoria. What is always troubling to me is that all the idiots think that they can blame someone for such a thing. Ugly and crazy such a multiple murder is, it is unlikely that it was preventable. Humans might think themselves Godly, but the truth is we a re dangerous, violent creatures whose entire history is filled with cruelty and violence. We can’t prevent our nature, but we could make it safer for the victims by providing a better safety net not assigning blame after the fact.
Looking back on things like this crime and second guessing is a moron’s game which will only lead to a degradation of our human rights because of Psychotic humans. I’m not ready to give up my human /civil rights, because Peter killed five people, and some other crazy might do the same. Life is dangerous Michelle, and young girls should learn about crazy violent men early in life without being sheltered from that lesson.
It’s more important Bernice’s revealing words be kept up there so that others can learn from her experiences and attitudes. I don’t worry about a fat girl who has probably been insulted before and has developed inner strength and beauty due to her personal hardships, because there is no hint of any mental instability in the words painted by Bernice. Besides her friend may have a good opinion about herself, and not at all subscribe to Bernice’s views/judgment.
No, Michelle, it is your judgment and your sentiments that you wish to insert into a place where they don’t belong. Let Bernice learn her own lessons from her own words and let the friend learn her lessons as well.
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Michelle Kenneth, May 9, 2008 at 09:10I agree and disagree with you all at the same time, but that's just our opinions between each other on everything.
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Bud Oracle (not verified), May 8, 2008 at 08:32Who would know what evil lurks in the heart of a man?
We all layer our perception on to the people we meet, no matter if it is accurate. We forget that they are our judgments and not reality. It works both ways, to oppress as well as to respect, when neither judgment is warranted.
"Even when he kicked over the display, Josef never intimidated me. I thought it was just a machismo thing because he was in the company of an attractive young woman. I did not see any maliciousness. He seemed kind"
This is nonsense spoken by a young women who holds certain opinions based on herself. It is so common, but would only serve to make someone who made such an evaluation vulnerable to men such as Fritzl. Use Your eyes Bernice, not what you think of yourself, to judge others. A man who in public/private displays behavior such as this is DANGEROUS.
"He seemed kind. Once a wasp was trapped in the cloakroom of our chalet, and I was ready to zap it with some Bug-B-Gone, but Josef cupped it in his hands and set it free out of the window telling it to "fly away!""
To me, shooing a wasp from a room represents intelligent, safe behavior more than kindness. The statement "He seemed kind." is not a logical deduction for such an action as Fritzl performed by "saving" the wasp. He might not have wanted to get stung by an enraged wasp, or to become exposed to dangerous chemicals.
Young people who have not learned the basics of staying safe through street smarts are vulnerable to predators such as this. They are victims ready to be victimized. I hope people do better evaluating people than Bernice, when coming into contact with someone who has evil in their heart. Bernice you were lucky!
Thanks for the honest slice of your life, it could help someone in the future..
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By cannycat, May 8, 2008 at 01:36Some of the language in your story reads very strangely for a native English speaker. Whereabouts in England did you grow up?
Re: I Knew Josef Fritzl
By Heather Wallace, May 8, 2008 at 07:05The author is from Cleethorpes, United Kingdom.